On the Wing

Flying in the face of widespread left wing extremism!

Cause for concern.

Posted by Exile on June 29, 2006

I make no secret of the fact, that The Gates of Vienna is one of my favourite sites. It heads my blogroll, I encourage others to go there. I go there for inspiration, information and not least , the discussion that goes on. Both the Baron and Dymphna never cease to entertain and occasionally they get us into discussions which others wouldn’t touch with a bargepole. It was therefore a little discouraging to read in a recent post from the Baron that one Danish blogger has been ‘driven away’ after some heated discussion in the comments section. This blogger naturally took offence at being called an antisemite, dhimmi, Bushbasher or whatever, by one or two of our American ‘allies’. I too noted the tone of the discussion, and wondered.
If ‘divide and conquer’ is still the same tactic that it has always been, then this has worked. Is there a hidden agenda here? Or have these people merely been so blinded by their own obsessions that they don’t recognise support even when they see it?
I can’t help but to think of small children having a tantrum, throwing Teddy into the corner, and anything else they get hold of, being thrown at noone in particular and everyone in general. Tantrums , as a rule, go by, but some of these seemed not to. Which is the cause of my suspicions.

Occasionally we get hate-mail. I have not, as yet, received one but I know of others that have. Getting one means you are having an impact, and should be celebrated. I encourage people to publish them and ridicule the sender, thus adding to the original impact that instigated the hate-mail.
But being attacked by one whom one considers an ally in the great cause is not so easily handled. One feels, simply, betrayed.

My fellow blogger, whoever you are, should you read this, then I implore you not to give up. Stick with it. Continue to comment, and write, and to show that you do give a damn. Do not be silenced by the anonymous. We do, after all, support freedom of speech. Even if it is, at times, offensive and unwarranted or unfair.
The infantiles and the obsessed will always be there. They are the ones who have a problem.

Not you.

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8 Responses to “Cause for concern.”

  1. Baron Bodissey said

    Exile —

    I put an update on the post with a link here. We’ll see if anyone comes over to continue the argument at your place…

  2. Zerosumgame said

    Exile,

    I cannot let this post go unanswered.

    It was therefore a little discouraging to read in a recent post from the Baron that one Danish blogger has been ‘driven away’ after some heated discussion in the comments section. This blogger naturally took offence at being called an antisemite, dhimmi, Bushbasher or whatever, by one or two of our American ‘allies’.

    As was pointed out by somebody other than me, Jews have faced far worse insults for 2000 years. Americans in the modern era face far worse insults from Europeans. I also would point out that the comments were made about Europe in general, and the posters at GoV were noted as exceptions. If a poster left because of those comments, I think he/she needs a thicker skin.

    I too noted the tone of the discussion, and wondered.
    If ‘divide and conquer’ is still the same tactic that it has always been, then this has worked.

    You are looking for conspiracy theories, when there is no conspiracy to be found. Even in fighting the War on Terror, those fighting it are not in lockstep on every issue. The left demands everyone march in lockstep. In America, on the right, we do not. Maybe you have been surrounded by a media/intelligentsia in Europe so uniform in its ideology (varying only from center-left to far left) that many well-meaning Europeans have genuinely forgotten that wars and causes are won by alliances of people who cover a broad range of political views.

    Is there a hidden agenda here? Or have these people merely been so blinded by their own obsessions that they don’t recognise support even when they see it?

    Exile, we recognize the support. But we do question its ability to effect change. Frankly, I think that the pro-Western faction of the European population is too small, and the European elites too ruthless toward their own dissidents (for that is what you people are — dissidents) and too cowardly toward the Islamofascists. And yes, I do think their anti-semitism does lead them to be sympathetic to Islamists. As for a ‘hidden agenda’ – please! I figure the left and Islamists to go around seeing everything as a sinister conspiracy; we don’t need those fighting them to think the same way.

    I can’t help but to think of small children having a tantrum, throwing Teddy into the corner, and anything else they get hold of, being thrown at noone in particular and everyone in general. Tantrums , as a rule, go by, but some of these seemed not to. Which is the cause of my suspicions.

    Exile, if you think Americans are throwing tantrums merely because we are not fond of Europe’s increasingly virulent anti-Americanism, or its long history of anti-Semitism, then good luck trying to get American support beyond Baron and Dymphna.

    If you want to win the War on Terror in Europe, you must “Stand with the Jews.” This is not an exaggeration. Those countries which treat their Jews best invariably are the ones most committed to the War on Terror. Those that let their Jews be persecuted are almost always the less committed. Standing with the Jews is an excellent barometer of a nations commitment to freedom, liberty, enlightenment and true tolerance. And it is much tougher to do with Europeans than with Americans. And if you wish to “Stand with the Jews” you do not do so by getting upset whenever some American has the nerve to point out the Jew-hatred all around you. You do not “Stand with the Jews” by dismissing anti-Israel sentiment in Europe as anything other than what it is — antisemitism. What DO you do? You say “Yes, I know, we have a problem with Judenhass, a big problem.” And you go fight it. In Europe.

    That is how you stand with the Jews. That is how you fight terrorism.

  3. a guy in pajamas said

    zerosumgame: As was pointed out by somebody other than me, Jews have faced far worse insults for 2000 years. Americans in the modern era face far worse insults from Europeans.

    Having been insulted, or belonging to a group that’s been demonized for millenia, does NOT give you the right to insult an innocent individual, and that’s a silly argument. “Someone kicked me, so don’t complain when I kick you” is exactly what it says.

    zerosumgame: Exile, if you think Americans are throwing tantrums merely because we are not fond of Europe’s increasingly virulent anti-Americanism, or its long history of anti-Semitism, …

    Um, a number of the posts I saw at Gates weren’t being ‘not fond of,’ they were vicious attacks on Europeans in general, no exceptions made for anyone, including European commenters on the thread who were proclaiming their support for the US.

    I did find Exile’s comments on ‘hidden agendas’ rather strange, as well, though.

    zerosumgame: If you want to win the War on Terror in Europe, you must “Stand with the Jews.”

    Meh. If you want to win the War on Terror in Europe, you fight terrorists and support freedom and Western values. If the Jews are doing the same, you will find them natural allies, fighting alongside you already. (And, indeed, I do see Israel – though not all Jews – standing beside us, carrying their share and more of the war. But I focus on fighting the war, not supporting one faction of the Allied Forces.)

    I can understand the initial ‘blowing off steam’ reaction to New Sisyphus’s post. I felt it, too, and it is easy to blame “Europeans” when so many do seem to be America- and Isreal-bashers, and Jew-bashers. But we do have allies in Europe and it is both irrational and damaging to our own cause to insist that ALL Europeans are evil, which pretty much seemed to be the main point of several commenters over there.

    Even if Europe is lost, which I am not certain of, surely you can see the value of keeping and supporting our allies there. They slow the enemy’s advance and provide us with valuable information. If Europe is not lost, they may do much more.

  4. Exile said

    OK, let’s make things clear about hidden agendas.
    I have worked with intelligence organisations, many years ago. I learned not to discount any possibility. Atack from within is always a possibility.
    I am not looking for conspiracy theories. Merely thinking objectively.
    I will now withdraw due to pressure of work, but please continue to comment, all of you. Discussion is our only way of prompting further thought. However, moderate yourselves, please. I do not wish to have to have to start comment moderation.
    Keep it salient. And polite.
    Thankyou.

  5. Zerosumgame said

    Exile,

    I never was in the intelligence business. I’m an engineer; always have been.

    When you read me, “what you see is what you get.” There are no hidden agendas.

    Sometimes what people write actually stands on its own, and not part of some larger game to divide you.

  6. Sperestillan said

    I think this is very important, and if I understand Exile properly, he’s saying we need to be looking for solutions rather than pointing the finger at each other and throwing accusations around. And yet, to a certain extent it’s still going on. Why?
    We’re being targetted enougn as it is, with even the internet not safe and Islamofascists trying repeatedly to take down anti-Islam websites, hate mail etc.
    So let’s hear some answers instead, some real and tangible things we can do as a team, because that’s what we are.
    Short of open civil warfare in Europe and the UK, which I certainly don’t advocate (and guess who would fill the power vacuum?), what else can we do that we aren’t already doing?
    The trouble is, we have dhimmified governments which are more concerned with staying in power than anything else, mainstream media which isn’t exactly a bastion of the truth, and left-wing anti-USA school teachers that try to brainwash impressionable kids in school (and that isn’t just our problem, but is the same in the USA as well in some schools.)
    It’s a hard slog getting people to see what is going on because they find it hard to believe that the MSM isn’t as upstanding as they always thought it was. Plus, people are afraid of being targetted, afraid of being vilified, afraid of being accused of racism, afraid of being thought of as unfair…
    People are getting sick of the situation though. In a recent by-election only 40% of the electorate turend out to vote, as opposed to 60% last time (that’s 20,000 voters down), but they need someone to vote for and at the moment that person just isn’t there.
    Our hands are tied. What else can we do?
    This might sound flippant, though it isn’t meant to be, but What Would Sun-Tzu Do?

  7. eatyourbeans said

    I second Guy in Pajamas, this is a voice of sanity.
    I don’t know if the instinctive biases of a cosmopolite media rise to the level of “conspiracy”, but we Americans should remember that all our information about what Europe thinks about us comes via this highly unreliable source. This would not be the first Potemkin Village.
    In any case, we need to support, encourage and, if it comes to it, aid our European friends anyway we can.

  8. Canker said

    eatyourbeans said…

    “I second Guy in Pajamas, this is a voice of sanity.
    I don’t know if the instinctive biases of a cosmopolite media rise to the level of “conspiracy”, but we Americans should remember that all our information about what Europe thinks about us comes via this highly unreliable source. This would not be the first Potemkin Village.
    …”
    Absolutely. Moreover, whilst it’s convenient, like so many convenient things it’s absolutely wrong to talk about Europe as some monolithic structure, as zerosumgame does.BTW, that’s got to be the most depressing name ever – nearly everything in this life (including the GWoT/3WGJ) is a positive sum game

    You might check out the following for the start of an analysis of the problems faced (and some suggestions for dealing with them):
    http://www.wayofthewest.org/

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